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	<title>Comments on: The Markit Group: A Black-Box Company that Devastated Markets</title>
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	<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/</link>
	<description>Investigating naked short selling, economic warfare, and the financial crisis</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:02:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Europäische Kommission untersucht Markt für Credit Default Swaps &#171; Nullpunkt Feld</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-177549</link>
		<dc:creator>Europäische Kommission untersucht Markt für Credit Default Swaps &#171; Nullpunkt Feld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 09:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-177549</guid>
		<description>[...] CDS Manipulation aussehen kann (oder könnte) hat Deep Capture schon im November 2009 beschrieben (der Name Markit fällt im Artikel ebenfalls): Obwohl sehr viel Aufmerksamkeit auf den [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] CDS Manipulation aussehen kann (oder könnte) hat Deep Capture schon im November 2009 beschrieben (der Name Markit fällt im Artikel ebenfalls): Obwohl sehr viel Aufmerksamkeit auf den [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Paulson and the Greatest Pump and Short Fraud Ever &#124; Deep Capture: exposing the crime of naked short selling</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-173920</link>
		<dc:creator>John Paulson and the Greatest Pump and Short Fraud Ever &#124; Deep Capture: exposing the crime of naked short selling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-173920</guid>
		<description>[...] ABX index. The banks were minor shareholders in Markit Group and provided data. I have noted in a previous blog that the Markit Group is a dubious outfit to say the least, and there is good reason to suspect [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ABX index. The banks were minor shareholders in Markit Group and provided data. I have noted in a previous blog that the Markit Group is a dubious outfit to say the least, and there is good reason to suspect [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-173432</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-173432</guid>
		<description>First, let me say that I am a trader who sometimes trades CDS.  I realize many people will stop reading right now or give no credit to anything I say.  I will concede that an argument can be made that CDS can be used to artificially manipulate markets.  I don&#039;t agree, and I don&#039;t think anyone has made a compelling argument that it has happened, but a plausible argument can be made.  

Second, Lehman (or any other company that has failed during this crisis) was not brought down by short sellers of stock or buyers of CDS.  It failed because it was insolvent and the government did not step in to save them.  The same thing would have happened to many other banks if the government hadn&#039;t subsequently stepped in to throw trillions of dollars at the problem with direct capital infusions, debt guarantees, zero interest rates, and purchases of assets at inflated prices.  If the remaining banks survive, it absolutely will not prove that Lehman was brought down in some insidious manner.  

Lastly, my real problem with this article is laying any of this blame at the feet of Markit.  Markit is a data aggregator.  Markit could not possibly cause a selloff or crash by publishing erroneous prices.  If I want to know where Citi CDS is trading, I don&#039;t call Markit; I call one of the 10-20 dealers who actually make markets in that CDS.  Anyone who is actually in a position to influence the price of any the securities in a significant way would do the same.  

On a somewhat unrelated note, the notional size of the CDS market (50-60 trillion) is a scary number but is not especially meaningful.  A huge amount of risk is effectively counted multiple times.  If I&#039;m a dealer and I buy 10mm of protection for one person and sell 10mm to another, that adds 20mm to the total outstanding notional.  But there is really only 10mm worth of risk created (aside for counterparty risk which is another problem).  Multiply this over tens of thousands of trades, and the amount of risk is probably overstated by at least an order of magnitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, let me say that I am a trader who sometimes trades CDS.  I realize many people will stop reading right now or give no credit to anything I say.  I will concede that an argument can be made that CDS can be used to artificially manipulate markets.  I don&#8217;t agree, and I don&#8217;t think anyone has made a compelling argument that it has happened, but a plausible argument can be made.  </p>
<p>Second, Lehman (or any other company that has failed during this crisis) was not brought down by short sellers of stock or buyers of CDS.  It failed because it was insolvent and the government did not step in to save them.  The same thing would have happened to many other banks if the government hadn&#8217;t subsequently stepped in to throw trillions of dollars at the problem with direct capital infusions, debt guarantees, zero interest rates, and purchases of assets at inflated prices.  If the remaining banks survive, it absolutely will not prove that Lehman was brought down in some insidious manner.  </p>
<p>Lastly, my real problem with this article is laying any of this blame at the feet of Markit.  Markit is a data aggregator.  Markit could not possibly cause a selloff or crash by publishing erroneous prices.  If I want to know where Citi CDS is trading, I don&#8217;t call Markit; I call one of the 10-20 dealers who actually make markets in that CDS.  Anyone who is actually in a position to influence the price of any the securities in a significant way would do the same.  </p>
<p>On a somewhat unrelated note, the notional size of the CDS market (50-60 trillion) is a scary number but is not especially meaningful.  A huge amount of risk is effectively counted multiple times.  If I&#8217;m a dealer and I buy 10mm of protection for one person and sell 10mm to another, that adds 20mm to the total outstanding notional.  But there is really only 10mm worth of risk created (aside for counterparty risk which is another problem).  Multiply this over tens of thousands of trades, and the amount of risk is probably overstated by at least an order of magnitude.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark to &#8220;Markit&#8221; Manipulation &#124; LILA RAJIVA: The Mind-Body Politic</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-173012</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark to &#8220;Markit&#8221; Manipulation &#124; LILA RAJIVA: The Mind-Body Politic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-173012</guid>
		<description>[...] From Deep Capture: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] From Deep Capture: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Judd Bagley</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172985</link>
		<dc:creator>Judd Bagley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172985</guid>
		<description>Agreed...securities may be the only item of value that can&#039;t be assayed in one form or another to verify authenticity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed&#8230;securities may be the only item of value that can&#8217;t be assayed in one form or another to verify authenticity.</p>
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		<title>By: dklester</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172984</link>
		<dc:creator>dklester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172984</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting and alarming post.  Many recognize that counterfeit stocks ruined the market.  However, tungsten and gold do NOT have the same molecular weight (184 &amp; 197 respectively=6% difference.  The fact of molecular weight I can check...the rest I cannot check.  Can you?  It rings a horrible bell of familiarity, but it may not be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting and alarming post.  Many recognize that counterfeit stocks ruined the market.  However, tungsten and gold do NOT have the same molecular weight (184 &amp; 197 respectively=6% difference.  The fact of molecular weight I can check&#8230;the rest I cannot check.  Can you?  It rings a horrible bell of familiarity, but it may not be true.</p>
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		<title>By: drmark2006</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172903</link>
		<dc:creator>drmark2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172903</guid>
		<description>Dick,

It&#039;s kind-of surprising that you don&#039;t know that Rupert Murdoch&#039;s News Corporation owns the Wall Street Journal.

WSJ was the flagship publication of Dow Jones &amp; Co., which News Corp. took over in an all-cash buyout. (DJ also published Barron&#039;s, and the various stock-indices under the Dow Jones brand name.) The deal was announced in April 2007 &amp; closed in mid-December 2007. It had something to do with the extended family descended from the founders of Dow Jones having gotten into an internal squabble over who/whether to keep majority-ownership control of the firm.

Both the family squabbling and the Murdoch bid were very widely reported at the time. One aspect of the reportage was concern about how the WSJ might change or deteriorate once Murdoch took over. He has a decades-long reputation for editorial interference and the basest of tabloid style, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dick,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind-of surprising that you don&#8217;t know that Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s News Corporation owns the Wall Street Journal.</p>
<p>WSJ was the flagship publication of Dow Jones &amp; Co., which News Corp. took over in an all-cash buyout. (DJ also published Barron&#8217;s, and the various stock-indices under the Dow Jones brand name.) The deal was announced in April 2007 &amp; closed in mid-December 2007. It had something to do with the extended family descended from the founders of Dow Jones having gotten into an internal squabble over who/whether to keep majority-ownership control of the firm.</p>
<p>Both the family squabbling and the Murdoch bid were very widely reported at the time. One aspect of the reportage was concern about how the WSJ might change or deteriorate once Murdoch took over. He has a decades-long reputation for editorial interference and the basest of tabloid style, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: g2nosis</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172870</link>
		<dc:creator>g2nosis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172870</guid>
		<description>Excellent work, Mr. Mitchell.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent work, Mr. Mitchell.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172857</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172857</guid>
		<description>Sorry, not sure what you are driving at.  You think I am an not an American, but maybe an American from the South (of the US) living in London and being disloyal to America?  Or are you accusing me of being British and using a word which, although not copyrighted, you have some proprietary feelings about?  Either way you are not being very coherent.  If you have something to say about the article, as opposed to my use of the word &quot;ain&#039;t,&quot;  I&#039;d be happy to hear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, not sure what you are driving at.  You think I am an not an American, but maybe an American from the South (of the US) living in London and being disloyal to America?  Or are you accusing me of being British and using a word which, although not copyrighted, you have some proprietary feelings about?  Either way you are not being very coherent.  If you have something to say about the article, as opposed to my use of the word &#8220;ain&#8217;t,&#8221;  I&#8217;d be happy to hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172854</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172854</guid>
		<description>In the world of liquid financial markets every thing is related. The uptick in the CDS levels has an impact on the price of the underlying securities involved which impact the valuation of related securities and stock prices and option prices. If you have insider information and you take a position in a CDS you have not comitted an infraction according to the best legal minds I have consulted. They are not securities and they are not regulated IF CDS prices spike however stock prices fall this you can bank on. The CDS mkt is the canary in the mine that the traders watch to make their bets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the world of liquid financial markets every thing is related. The uptick in the CDS levels has an impact on the price of the underlying securities involved which impact the valuation of related securities and stock prices and option prices. If you have insider information and you take a position in a CDS you have not comitted an infraction according to the best legal minds I have consulted. They are not securities and they are not regulated IF CDS prices spike however stock prices fall this you can bank on. The CDS mkt is the canary in the mine that the traders watch to make their bets.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172851</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172851</guid>
		<description>Let the SUNSHINE IN and the PROSECUTIONS BEGIN !!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let the SUNSHINE IN and the PROSECUTIONS BEGIN !!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172848</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172848</guid>
		<description>Anonomous,
  
  Don&#039;t think many AMERICAN&#039;s would make this comment or feel this way:
&quot;the remarks, in my opinion, smacked of American chauvinism – this company must be bad because it isn’t American&quot;

Not too many people I know from London or the northeast USA  in the states use the term ain&#039;t. Thats a true southerner expression. What part of the south are you from? Southerner in London...Nice !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonomous,</p>
<p>  Don&#8217;t think many AMERICAN&#8217;s would make this comment or feel this way:<br />
&#8220;the remarks, in my opinion, smacked of American chauvinism – this company must be bad because it isn’t American&#8221;</p>
<p>Not too many people I know from London or the northeast USA  in the states use the term ain&#8217;t. Thats a true southerner expression. What part of the south are you from? Southerner in London&#8230;Nice !!!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172841</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172841</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I alluded to being from London. Generally I don&#039;t think Londoners do use the term ain&#039;t, except with irony or to emphasise a point.  The finance world is very diverse and international however, and there is a great deal of cross pollination, in ideas and in language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I alluded to being from London. Generally I don&#8217;t think Londoners do use the term ain&#8217;t, except with irony or to emphasise a point.  The finance world is very diverse and international however, and there is a great deal of cross pollination, in ideas and in language.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172840</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172840</guid>
		<description>anonomous, You said: &quot;Whatever it is, it ain’t the search for truth.&quot;

You elude to being from London ? Please tell me how long Londoner&#039;s have become southernized and used the word &quot;ain&#039;t&quot; ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anonomous, You said: &#8220;Whatever it is, it ain’t the search for truth.&#8221;</p>
<p>You elude to being from London ? Please tell me how long Londoner&#8217;s have become southernized and used the word &#8220;ain&#8217;t&#8221; ?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.deepcapture.com/the-markit-group-a-black-box-company-that-devastated-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-172836</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepcapture.com/?p=1273#comment-172836</guid>
		<description>The writer got so many things factually wrong I can scarcely credit his claim to have done any real investigation.  The things he got wrong would have been easy to get right, by using Google or looking at the company website for example.  He didn&#039;t need to wait for some junior PR guy who &quot;did not return his call&quot; (read: got buried by work and forgot).  The numbers of investors and contributors is ludicrously far off the mark - there are more than twice the number of contributors than he quotes, and this number is public information.  He even got wrong the initial investors and when they invested, which was *years* after the founding of the company - again, information which is public and easy to find.  Markit&#039;s methods for arriving at their indices are on their website,  and these methods are overseen by independent third party committees.  I also object to the way this writer tried to make them sound sinister - &quot;a small, black box company in London&quot; - let&#039;s unpack that shall we?  Markit has 1300 employees.  Not as big as some financial data companies maybe, but I wouldn&#039;t call that small.  Black box?  The only black box is around the writer&#039;s head, given his wilful ignorance of public information.  You can&#039;t claim a company is trying to hide something just because you refuse to read what&#039;s out there.  These guys are not the Illuminati. Markit is one of the good guys.  It was founded in part because the market needed greater transparency in pricing, not because it wanted less.  Fiscally they run a tight ship, in contrast to some of the stories we have heard about profligate spending in the financial world.  They have always kept their salaries and bonuses at the lower end of the scale and linked to performance, instead giving employees the chance to buy stock in the company, which is kind of the way people want the whole city to be handling their compensation right now.  They have always had really high employee retention, even when the economy was good.  On business trips they fly economy.  The whole culture is about staying lean, being fiscally responsible and competitive.  Most of the original founders are still with the company - it hasn&#039;t become some faceless corporate machine.  Finally, I noticed this article was edited after it was first posted - the original version had remarks about &quot;two Canadians and a property investor&quot; with a sneering tone - the remarks, in my opinion, smacked of American chauvinism - this company must be bad because it isn&#039;t American, and it&#039;s in a foreign sounding place called London.  How ignorant can you be?  Ignorant enough to put nutso accusations on the internet without any evidence in support I guess.  What is the animus behind this piece?  Whatever it is, it ain&#039;t the search for truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The writer got so many things factually wrong I can scarcely credit his claim to have done any real investigation.  The things he got wrong would have been easy to get right, by using Google or looking at the company website for example.  He didn&#8217;t need to wait for some junior PR guy who &#8220;did not return his call&#8221; (read: got buried by work and forgot).  The numbers of investors and contributors is ludicrously far off the mark &#8211; there are more than twice the number of contributors than he quotes, and this number is public information.  He even got wrong the initial investors and when they invested, which was *years* after the founding of the company &#8211; again, information which is public and easy to find.  Markit&#8217;s methods for arriving at their indices are on their website,  and these methods are overseen by independent third party committees.  I also object to the way this writer tried to make them sound sinister &#8211; &#8220;a small, black box company in London&#8221; &#8211; let&#8217;s unpack that shall we?  Markit has 1300 employees.  Not as big as some financial data companies maybe, but I wouldn&#8217;t call that small.  Black box?  The only black box is around the writer&#8217;s head, given his wilful ignorance of public information.  You can&#8217;t claim a company is trying to hide something just because you refuse to read what&#8217;s out there.  These guys are not the Illuminati. Markit is one of the good guys.  It was founded in part because the market needed greater transparency in pricing, not because it wanted less.  Fiscally they run a tight ship, in contrast to some of the stories we have heard about profligate spending in the financial world.  They have always kept their salaries and bonuses at the lower end of the scale and linked to performance, instead giving employees the chance to buy stock in the company, which is kind of the way people want the whole city to be handling their compensation right now.  They have always had really high employee retention, even when the economy was good.  On business trips they fly economy.  The whole culture is about staying lean, being fiscally responsible and competitive.  Most of the original founders are still with the company &#8211; it hasn&#8217;t become some faceless corporate machine.  Finally, I noticed this article was edited after it was first posted &#8211; the original version had remarks about &#8220;two Canadians and a property investor&#8221; with a sneering tone &#8211; the remarks, in my opinion, smacked of American chauvinism &#8211; this company must be bad because it isn&#8217;t American, and it&#8217;s in a foreign sounding place called London.  How ignorant can you be?  Ignorant enough to put nutso accusations on the internet without any evidence in support I guess.  What is the animus behind this piece?  Whatever it is, it ain&#8217;t the search for truth.</p>
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